I started, a couple years ago, saving out of various email discussions the “kudos” people sent me. I spend most of my time on my own list (obviously) but also have spent many hours on a variety of other “dating, mating, and marrying” lists. And I've added to this page over time.

In most cases, I have not retained the identity of the person who submitted the comment. People join these lists with pseudonyms in order to protect their privacy, and I would not violate that privacy. Some, who’ve either given permission or are openly using their personal or professional identify, I have retained – as their identity adds an extra… fillip… of pleasure for me.

I welcome all to my list, Pat Allen Dating; save only spammers who will be banned immediately.

Sections:

Dating, Mating, Marrying Advice Lists

  • I think that you are just incredible – all of the energy you spend answering people’s questions, and your well-composed, helpful answers and the careful way that you deliver your ideas… It’s very inspiring! I hope that you do produce a book from this. Katherine Frank SSRC Sexuality Research Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Sociology, University of Wisconsin, Madison, www.katefrank.com
  • What a thoughtful post from Elenor!
  • Wow, Elenor, twice in one day!!! VERY good posts!!!
  • Thanks for your perfect analysis. It was a sheer joy to read! I agree completely.
  • Elenor, love the advice you gave in this post! It applies universally for men, women, of many situations, not just for love relationships.
  • Thank you Elenor. I think you hit the nail on the head. Anyway, you’re right … and I appreciate your candor.
  • Elenor, I really enjoy reading your posts and I’m glad you are a member of our group.
  • Like I said, Elenor, I appreciate your straight forwardness.
  • Very helpful. Elenor, thanks so much for your information and advise. Writing up the list was so helpful to me. You are very good at figuring out just what someone needs and pointing them at the next best step. Thanks so much for your generosity… sharing this understanding you have… you have made a significant difference in my life the past weeks, and I don’t even want to think about the state of confounded confusion I’d be in at this point without your posts
  • Thank you so much for this very personal reply. I have been reading the board, and am very impressed with you. You have quite a level and intelligent head. I find your posts very ‘right-on’ as they say. You are quite a good writer, also.
  • aww El – first you made me cry then you made me laugh. I’m going to print this out and read it every time I think about him.
  • I know your post was addressed to G___, but I found it very inspirational and kind too, so thank you for posting it
  • Wow El, again, your incisive analysis has hit the nail on the head.

  • Pat Allen’s system (and especially Elenor’s take on it) is inherently positive, not anti-men and not anti-women either. This is not easy, and Elenor manages not to fall into beating up one sex or the other. … Elenor’s approach may seem tough to some, but far from being cruel or unfeeling, it is entirely consistent with what the research suggests is the best way to feel better and do better and feel happier in life.
  • El – as usual – BRILLIANT! … But for as much as I want very much to be a frittering-away-my-time princess, today, this opened my eyes…
  • I love your writing style and think you are very witty!
  • However, when I hear the frustration in El’s e-mails, it makes me realize what a job she’s taken on, and is indeed doing a very fine job! I know Pat Allen would be proud to have such a wonderful person spreading the word. We can only hope that people like El and Pat can impact enough people of make enough of a difference. Jim Hallowes, www.HighlySensitivePeople.com
  • I don’t think you have any idea how good at deconstructing these situations you are and how valuable your insight and kind advice is. I’m amazed. Tons of the things you say are downright true!!
  • El… you are the first in these kind of groups to ‘hear’ me and give it back exactly how I feel. Bless you and thank you for hearing me.
  • Message subject line: Advice needed: Separate role as a wife and employee (especially to Elenor)
  • And I am not sure that is the right way to handle things, but I don’t know what else to do. I am hoping that Elenor will have some good advice.
  • HAHAHAHA Maybe we should start addressing all posts as “Dear Elenor.” She does give great advice.
  • Elenor might get tired of us….lol
  • Thanks, Elenor – You handled this like a true lady. Very respectful and tactful. I appreciate your stewardship of the board.
  • Y’know El, I am so happy you’re in my life, albeit in a cyber way. Thank god you’re there.
  • I get a kick out of your posts!

  • Elenor, I think you give the greatest advice! You are definitely such a wonderful addition to the board.
  • Your advice is lovely and I am enjoying reading a new and fresh perspective.
  • Wow! Quite profound. You get it! YOU GET IT!
  • Lol! Sometimes you just crack me up El, and I have to laugh out loud!
  • I LOVE your advice, it’s so spot on. This is a great answer and I agree 100%
  • I LOVE your advice btw!!
  • Thank you so much Elenor, for this wonderful, beautiful post. It brought tears to my eyes to feel so cared for and supported. Bless you, angel. You give me MUCH valuable food for thought which resonates deeply, and I am going to print this post out and carry it around for a few days.
  • You are very intelligent and intuitive El – I’m so happy to be on this board.
  • I always like your advice and think you are right on the money.
  • I especially love El’s suggestion to start everything off with the words “I feel.”
  • El, I couldn’t agree more with everything that you said.
  • Elenor, Brilliant post!
  • Exactly!! Great post El.

  • Thanks Elenor. I appreciate your being there.
  • Hi Elenor and all other surrendered wife, Thanks for the great advise on my earlier post in Sept. regarding “Managing Financial Difficulty”.
  • Everything you’ve said to me so far has resonated perfectly and been right on target.
  • Great advice El.
  • My therapist agreed with Elenor (and we were discussing male energy and female energy).
  • Hi Elenor, Thank you SO much for calling it like it is.
  • Oh, El, you’ve just reminded me of something very basic and very important.
  • EXACTLY!!! Beautifully said Elenor.
  • I love this interpretation Elenor!
  • Thanks El, your post actually brought me to some real eye-opening conclusions.
  • Thank you Elenor! I got your reply and it makes total sense.
  • I agree 150% with Elenor.
  • Oh my God, a lightbulb moment. Thank you El, as ever, you are at the nub of it all.

  • Great post. Thank you for pointing this out. Of course, you are completely right!
  • I have to echo what Elenor said.
  • Hi El, Yes, you’ve got it right.
  • Listen to wise Auntie El, S_____, she’s right.
  • El, Very good post!
  • Your analysis of my other dream was so amazing! How about this?
  • Thanks, Elenor, for putting so well the words I couldn’t think of.
  • Thanks Elenor, for inviting me to this group and opening my eyes to a whole new level of surrendering to my husband!
  • As usual, this is fantastically insightful Elenor.
  • Anyway, you have given me loads of food for thought Elenor,
  • Dear Elenor, Aha! This is super duper helpful to me.
  • Elenor these two paragraphs are really to the point about the need to learn lesson A first, + the example you give is bang on – that is the sort of thing I was trying to convey to you.
  • The points you make are SUPER helpful to me.

  • I have really enjoyed Elenor’s posts in specific.
  • Elenor! You are a hoot! Wow this is really great.
  • Oh El … I need your kind sensible ear and advice right now.
  • I enjoy having you around Elenor, you give awesome advice
  • I didn’t think about it but Elenor is right that in order for my dream to have the best chance of coming true I do have to devote some energy to nurturing it along. Thanks for the perspective, now I don’t feel so dumb about it. In fact I feel more confident that it will one day come true.
  • Dear El, A really helpful response …
  • You add so much to the buffet around here … relax, Elenor. It’s all good.
  • Hi Elenor, Great post and well explained. Thanks!
  • Elenor’s response WAS SO GOOD!!! much better than mine
  • I hope I can overcome this addiction (as Elenor correctly catagorized it), by myself without having to “fess up” to my husband…
  • Serious kudos to you Elenor!
  • Hi Elenor, I feel kind of bad reading and responding to this “before” E____ does, BUT thanks so much for replying to her!! You have helped me also by giving this advice. Thanks for contributing to this message board Elenor!!
  • You’re the greatest!

  • Very good answer!! I wasn’t sure how to say this same thing without sounding rude. But you did a supreme job of it!!!
  • Dear Elenor, Wow, your comments really made me think … thank you for your time.
  • Great post. I agree with El 100%.
  • Wonderful post El and so very true.
  • Great post El!!!!
  • Thanks Elenor for the kind inf.
  • Thank you for listening to the heart of what I was rabbiting on about and humoring me! I really appreciate your graciousness
  • Well as much as I respect Elenor’s very logical & well-thought-out opinion (Thanks!, you always have great things to say!) I disagree…
  • I love El’s analogy about sparkling like a jewel
  • I’m sure Elenor can think of some more pertinent questions to help you get to the bottom of this,
  • Wow Elenor. I agree with what you have written.
  • Great advice Elenor!
  • I LOVE your input. You are very good at this advice thing.

  • I took Elenor’s very hard advice of the 8 week wait, with a few teary sessions in between, and after 4 weeks he came back, saying he realized what he was losing, and that he was absolutely sure that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me.
  • I’d love to know which lists you post to – you seem so wise and positive, I’d like to subscribe to all of them.
  • It is rather amusing to see someone suggesting that your posting style isn’t up to scratch – just when I was thinking how lovely your posting style is! People read things from their own perspective, and if they are negative, they will see darkness everywhere, whether it is there or not. I love your style. Don’t change! Looking forward to knowing which lists you are on! Must subscribe to them!
  • Elenor, you are so good at getting to the bottom of things. Can you please read Stronger Marriages message #42542 and jump in with some pertinent questions for S____? I asked her a few Q’s in a later post called “S____.” We need your expertise!
  • I STILL prefer your style and love your breezy, straightforward, positive approach.
  • Wonderful post El!!!! I agree 100%.
  • Wow Elenor, this is so helpful. El, I love your ‘sparkling’ theme – if nothing else that needs to sink in! And the following completely hits the nail on the head. … El, many, many thanks for understanding the sub-text so completely – I really appreciate your feedback so much.
  • THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Elenor!!! I couldn’t have survived my date yesterday had you not responded to my post in time
  • El, you are amazing! You never cease to amaze me!
  • I love debating with El! She challenges me and makes me think – she’s wiser than I am.
  • Great post, Elenor. Thanks for your insights.
  • WOW you have crystalized this for me in a way I’ve never seen before. I’m going to print out your reply to me and re-read it every day until any thoughts of him are completely GONE out of my life. Thank you – from the bottom of my heart. You’ve just saved me a billion dollars in therapy!
  • I love your advice El. You have no idea how you have helped me and changed me. Your advice literally changed my life.

  • Thank you! Thank you for that lightbulb moment.
  • Reread El’s post about 8 weeks and the cave, it is right on!
  • Thank you sooooo much for your advice and observations.
  • Incredible post, I agree 10000000000000%!
  • Elenor, Boy did you say this right! I learn a lot from your posts
  • Oh this is good – thank you again Elenor, and it is all a matter of perspective, you are right.
  • This is deeply encouraging to me. Everything you said in this email has really helped so much!!
  • I really appreciate your insights and have been thinking a lot about what you wrote.
  • Elenor, I couldn’t agree more.
  • Hi sweetie, It was so nice to finally finally finally meet you in person. YOU are soo feminine in person. As ‘chirpy’ as you are, your body language is of a real femme. It was lovely meeting your momma and Michael Ray too. :) Love, Athena (Navarro, the L.A. Love Coach)
  • I would love your help in this. You seem to have a lot of knowledge in this stuff, and I could really learn a lot from you.
  • Ohhh, you’re such a breath of fresh air, Elenor! I LOVE your directness – such a pleasure to read. xxx I have to go to sleep now, and I shall think about your comments and criticisms and questions as I do so – with a big smile on my face. You’re a real tonic! Thanks so much. I really appreciate your messages. S____ (giggling – after feeling decidedly despondent most of the day – THANKS!)
  • Elenor, Did you have a chance to read my post about what happened between my husband and I this weekend? I ask because your advice/observations are always blunt and right on the mark. Do you have any advice on where I should go from here?

  • Elenor, Thank you so much. Your posting made so much sense to me and gave voice and reason to something I have been feeling very unsettled about.
  • You are so good at cutting to the core. You are right on the money.
  • Thanks for your thoughtful response, El – You are right, I guess I was feeling sensitive, but have seen the light :-) You make a lot of good points here about what went on with the communication – thanks for helping me make sense of it.
  • El, you’re one terrific lady :-)
  • Yes, ain’t she!!?? We’re very lucky to have her insight and inexhaustible interest in our situations – and she gives great Pat-based advise!
  • Just a witness, but wanted to say that is such a nice thing for you to have appreciated and verbalized to Elenor. Thanks, I don’t think I do that enough myself. Elenor, you do have a special talent for listening and offering kind (and supportive) advice that goes to the heart!
  • El has it right.
  • Elenor, you are a blessing!
  • El Thanks for your advice, it was SOOOOOO helpful in getting me to be yin and feeling-centered in my approach.
  • Well said Elenor!
  • El, Great post!
  • You’ve got SOOO many good suggestions. When do you start charging???? My friends are in awe of you.
  • I am thrilled with the conversation you and I have going and so happy you are taking the time and energy. Maybe I’ll just have to name our first mutual pet after you since kids are not likely.

  • Thanks Elenor! As always your replies are so helpful to me.
  • WOW, Truth is Helpful. Wow, oh wow, I needed that. Thank you so much, Elenor. Wow did I need to hear that spelled out. I need to be rid of all the denial. You have it EXACTLY right. I appreciate the bluntness Elenor. A lot of it is exactly on target, the rest is close, and it all has helped me tremendously. Thank you so very much.
  • Thank you a million times over for being open and direct. You are absolutely right. You have it EXACTLY right.
  • Elenor, I am so glad to read your comments! It’s like, wheeewwww! Other people are struggling / grappling / addressing similar issues.
  • Thanks Elenor! Your wisdom, life experience, and perspective is so refreshing! I’m glad you share your stories. I’m glad you’re there.
  • Thanks, Elenor, you have given me much to think about. You hit the nail on the head with the “smashed down feelings” part. That is exactly it.
  • I always appreciate your concrete feedback and your whimsical side too! It’s so refreshing to be able to talk about marital issues with other women who have been there or are currently there. Yes! I agree with you.
  • I am glad for the direction you provide Elenor
  • Elenor, you are brilliant. Thank you so much for – well – everything.
  • Elenor, that helps A TON. Very clear, very easy to understand, even not too hard to accept (at this moment). Am working on it anyway. Thank you *so * so* very much for talking me through this junk.
  • I just love your style Elenor. I know you are passionate about seeing people in healthy marriages and happy relationships. I think you could lead one of Pat’s seminars! I would be the first to sign up. You are direct, yet don’t hit folks over the head when they screw up – and at some point, we all do!
  • Thanks so much for sharing your (most *wonderful *insightful *honest and *helpful*) take on this stuff, Elenor. I’d be *so much further behind* in my struggle through this without your thoughts and generosity. I appreciate them to no end.
  • I loved the advice Elenor gave you in what to say to your dad, she showed you exactly what to say and exactly how to act.

  • Many, many thanks to you Elenor for the years of life experience you’ve shared with me in this group. Your style is direct and full of great examples. I receive your wisdom with a hunger to apply what I’m learning.
  • This is great advice, all the way through! Well expressed. Actually, good advice for all parents – esp. the idea of thinking what the long-term consequences of short-term behaviors.
  • Hi Elenor, Where do you live????? dang, I’d sure love to learn more from you! You speak everything my common sense and soul tell me.
  • (To someone else:) Don’t be so hard on yourself. How could you have known without Elenor’s help?
  • Sounds fantastic. Absolutely worthwhile. Thank you for this. I know it’s going to help too. You sure are greatly helpful, Elenor. Amazingly wonderfully helpful.
  • You are an angel. Thank you for saying this, this is exactly what was happening.
  • Which is why I so value these boards and the support of the people here (especially El)…because you all help to keep me on the right path.
  • Thanks for your email, El, everything you wrote seems to be right on target, and is true, and I especially appreciate the feedback on Pat Allen’s advice. You helped me to interpret her message, and expanded upon it.
  • Thank YOU! Do you know this is the first time someone has articulated that to me so clearly?
  • I learn so much from you. Thank you for your giving your advice, I love learning this stuff, how to be the strong yin in my life. It’s so great to learn this stuff from you…
  • Thank you … bang on the nail!!!!! This is sooo wise, as is your previous email
  • Elenor, I can’t put into words your willingness to share your time with me on this matter, I could not have made it through without your advice and your firm care regarding my dealings with our office manager. I was a bit nervous prior to the meeting, but once it started, it passed by quickly. Thank you so much. I am very lucky to have you in my *life*. I don’t know how you have so much to give over and over, you really are an inspiration to me.
  • *I* very very much appreciate your honesty, even though it was hard to swallow at first. I am nowhere near your intelligence and experiences, but I will “follow” you. You really inspire me to be honest with myself and honest with others.

  • You always bring a fresh perspective and your insight into the situation is awesome! I appreciate you El!
  • Thanks for the pep talk, El! They always help, and that’s no joke! (From a man!)
  • Thank you Elenor. Your words are always so precise. Even though it makes me see sooo much of the things in me that I have to work on, the things you explain to me and the way you explain to me … it just hits it exactly where I need it and I feel much better. I wish I have the solidness and confidence as you do in these things.
  • Elenor, thank you so much for your support. Your advice is so great, thank you!!
  • Elenor, thanks so much for all your comments and taking the time to do it. You are so good.
  • Hi El, Every word you write is so, so true.
  • Elenor does not charge anything for her advice. She has not written any well-known books, but she has been spot on with any of my issues and has many women who has been helped by her anyhow. By email, Elenor can sound “harsh” but if you can take the time to get to know her, you will realize that she from the bottom of her heart cares and means every word she says.
  • Elenor, the below you posted is so awesome.
  • You can at least answer ME on her list, if you want – *I* think your advice is invaluable! (And everyone can benefit from it!)
  • Elenor, you did such a great job in response to G____, although you must have been so darn pissed off. I know how I feel when someone refuses to listen and then insults! So I just wanted to give you kudos for *controlling* your anger to her. It would have been so much easier to just get rid of someone, but you tried and tried. You won in the end. Thank you for being such a great leader of this forum.
  • I get so much out of your posts and realize much about myself. Thank you El.
  • Your guidance and experience in something we’re ALL trying to learn is invaluable!
  • Thanks El! You’re a wonderful support and I don’t know what we’d do without you!

  • Thanks E! I appreciate you took the time to write so much back.
  • I would have no problem saying the flirty stuff you suggest and it does sound great! I loved what you wrote.
  • WOW! Such clarity! Such wisdom! I am in awe – and I am NOT being sarcastic. Thanks so much El, for the GREAT examples!
  • El, you are so very kind! THANK YOU! It is amazing how much better I feel, just reading your message! Thanks so much, Elenor! It is very reassuring!
  • Elenor – I read your response and wanted to thank you. You really got me thinking!
  • WOW! Thank you again! You are brilliant!
  • Thanks, El, for this great tidbit. It is one of your great “Pearls of Wisdom” that I, as a wanna-be-Yin woman, add to the string of wonderful tips and advice that you have so generously provided. I have so much difficulty figuring out how to verbalize, this is GREAT help for me.
  • WOW, El! That was brilliant!!! Totally totally helpful! I’m so grateful to you for doing this work here with us.
  • As always, thank you so much Elenor for your astute counsel. It helps a lot!
  • Elenor, I adore you. What a woman! WHAT a WOLF! What a breath of fresh air!
  • El, you are amazingly “there” for all of us, considering that you have a life away from the computer!
  • Thanks, El. You are brill!
  • Thanks to El; so may I say a big gracious thank you for all the time you devote to us!

  • El! I have definitely not expressed how brilliant I think you are, and how much you have helped me, and how impressed I am with your ability to express Pat’s ideas and help people understand them in practice. This is SO IMPORTANT!
  • Oh El, you’re absolutely right in saying…
  • Thanks so much El for putting all this in perspective!
  • El, thank you always for your humorous emails
  • Even more wonderful is you sharing it with us all. You’re a one in a million woman!
  • I got some great advice a few weeks ago from El.
  • Thanks Elenor, I love reading your emails, so much good stuff, and Pat Allen quotes.
  • I’ve been reading your posts – and I forgot – so thank you for reminding me that it’s about beauty and meaning…
  • I really like your email El, as I drink my tea…I find it very illuminating, especially the part about being careful of your words-thoughts-actions.
  • Hi Elenor, thank you always for your wonderful advice. You wrote it to F____ but it means something to my life as well.
  • El is great at coaching us
  • Thank you El, I really appreciate you helping me like this.

  • I am writing because I wanted to say how much I liked your analogy of the “bait” must wait, and that is their job. Jim Hallowes, www.HighlySensitivePeople.com
  • Fabulous reminder El! <VBG>
  • I really do thank you for taking the time to answer my email, it really made my week, made the day much more bearable, and shed a new light on my situation for me. I tend to think so terribly about myself and think I did this wrong and that wrong, and that is why he isn’t contacting me. And you must be a psychic, because I think that he is exactly thinking what you said about his assessing the situation and the ramifications of that trip. Your email really helped me see that since you seem to have hit the nail on the head, I would only strive to be as perceptive as you.
  • Anyway – it is definitely progress from where I was… and that is primarily thanks to you, El!!
  • El, those comments were really wonderful…and true! I can’t tell you how many times you’ve articulated a concept in a way that *I* was finally able to understand it. (the latest, but not the least, being the recent “bait” analogy) I try to simply repeat what you’ve been telling me for the last year+ but sometimes it just doesn’t seem to come out the same way.
  • I also liked what El wrote this morning in her pre-coffee ramblings ;) actually it was pretty coherent.
  • Dear El, Again, thank you for sensitivity and encouragement. Love it! We’ll see what emerges… you made me laugh too. Thank you too for the validation on following my heart… That’s a lovely way of reframing things. I think you’re right and it is absurd for me to be quavering anyway … even if not everyone supports my decision. I get what you’re saying. I’m most appreciative as ever,
  • Your response was illuminating and, I hope, ultimately, freeing. I also loved what you said about ALLOWING ourselves to be the prize and not struggling with the chemistry issue.
  • Ohmygodohmygodohmygod – you are right. That is a very powerful point, El. Oh gosh. You speak the truth, El.
  • Elenor, this is all sooo interesting. I hope to learn more ways to be and act yin like this from you.
  • Hello El: haha, you are a Gestalt expert! Thank you for your coffee thoughts! that is what I needed to read, and it also made me cry from relief. … You are right El: that would be a good topic for the counseling, and to present it the way you suggested is good. … Your email did give me a sign of relief. I really hope your own trip is going well. I wish I was able to think so clearly as you are and articulate my feelings/thoughts better.
  • First off, Very good advice El! (Jim Hallowes)
  • Thanks for this post, you are right on in every point!!
  • You’ve helped me in countless ways…

  • Thank you sooo much for this thoughtful reply. I appreciate you so much.
  • ++You totally get it! Thank you for this advice. Thanks for putting it into perspective.
  • Elenor, Thank you!!! for all that you do here!
  • Thanks, El: that is exactly what I was thinking, but I needed clarification I guess. You put it quite succinctly, I might add!
  • You are exactly right, El, and I figured that out this weekend, in meditation, prayer, etc.
  • I am thankful for some people here on clarifying things, especially, you, El.
  • El, thank you for addressing so well what B____ wrote about N___’s situation. I KNEW I felt uncomfortable with some of what he was saying, but I couldn’t put my finger on it! Thank you for articulating this.
  • By the way, loved your “rant” the other day about little girls and sexuality.
  • Hi Elenor, thank you for your quick email responses, as always. Do you think I’ve changed in regards to being doormatty? I’m so glad you can see that in me, because I feel terrible about these situations so often (as you can see)…in your emails to me, you understand what I’m feeling perfectly. You put into words the feelings I’ve felt all my life, the guilt of refusing to do something when someone is asking for it.
  • It feels so wonderful to have you *stick up for me*.
  • I thought a lot about you saying that it could be my parents in my head and you’re probably right. Actually you are (almost) always right. (Well, I think you’re always right but you probably will say that you are not always right! ;) ). It helps me so much that you are telling me that it’s ok if I don’t defend myself.
  • El, you of all people are more than allowed to wag loud, pushy and indulgent fingers at me :) And even if part of me fights it, I know you’re doing it out of the genuine kindness of your heart. I mean, where would half of us be without you!

  • Hi Elenor. Thanks for your wonderful email!
  • I really appreciate your response to me, I am going to print it out and read it often!
  • Elenor, you are still a first class act that gives great advice.
  • Thanks El – I’ll definitely print this out for future reference
  • Hi Elenor, you are always very helpful.
  • Ah, yes, yes! The light bulb just came on! I get it now, I don’t know why this was never clear to me before.
  • Thanks very much! I appreciate the gentle approach, El.
  • El, you are so wise.
  • El – wonderful, wonderful, wonderful!! I have gotten so much out of your postings for the last few weeks – perhaps I shall have to pay for your next R and R cruise!
  • El, I totally agree with F____! :) I’m really enjoying reading everything you write and just want to know when your book is coming out!! It’s going to be a best seller!!
  • Wow, thank you El. This is about 100% different from TR (The Rules) so it’s a lot to digest. But yes, I think your suggestions make a lot of sense. Thank you for your suggestions on the email. A BIG improvement over mine.
  • I feel much better now after having heard your advice. thank you very much!
  • I have an older, wiser mentor: El! (hey watch that cane! <whack!> ouch!) While we haven’t attempted any direct matchmaking, she keeps me in check when I have a freak-out or an over-think. Thanks El! Meg

  • You’re pretty amazing, El.
  • I totally understand what you are saying, … however I also think El has a very valid point written below!
  • I think El has (as always!) stated the PA philosophy wonderfully
  • Elenor YOU ARE FANTASTIC
  • Oh goodness El, that’s the loveliest thing anyone has said for awhile, thank you SO much, you’ve really made my day :) I absolutely love reading the board messages & especially all the PA advice you take the time to post. Honestly, If it weren’t for you I don’t know where half the members of the board would be or if Pat’s work would be so effective if it weren’t possible to discuss and apply it in detail. For what it’s worth I’ve never considered you either grim or old! Just trying to keep us in line at the best of times!
  • hi El, just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading this post to our dear____. It was very insightful to get the analysis because I also got an inkling that she was … But I feel what El is saying is soooo true.
  • I’ve always personally admired the way you’ve been so open and honest with your own personal life experiences and have sought to educate us all with your knowledge, time and experience.
  • My gosh, I’ve been reading the posts here and am just amazed at the time and energy you’ve invested in the board, and the thoughtful responses you provide. It’s incredibly generous.
  • I really like Elenor’s suggestions to you so far …
  • I think this is great and I totally appreciate the time you took to craft this response. If you could just give me some advice on how to negotiate the timing into the equation, I think this will be just the ticket (or at least something new to try!)
  • El, your “ears” are amazing… you hear very well indeed.
  • Elenor!! Your last line was brilliant!! “The difference between us hurts!” (She had written: But why is it that I want to throw rocks at boys?)
  • Oh El – this post brought me to tears – THIS IS YOU YOU YOU AT YOUR ABSOLUTE MOST BRILLIANT! THANK YOU – THIS IS THE MOST DIFFICULT PART… – FINAL EXAM? NAH – POST DOCTORATE!!!! (Fran)

  • El – Brilliant insight! El – This is the hardest part of all – to be hurt AND still be open and vulnerable instead of being hurt and running away to protect yourself from any more pain. This is perfect advice– –I LOVE THIS. This is everything Pat says in a perfect / concise / nutshell. El – ABSOLUTELY TRUE IN MY CASE
  • The only miscommunication that could possibly be going on is that El is often perceived as exceedingly blunt and harsh in some circles, but on this forum, we understand that is the nature of her personality and if we didn’t appreciate her directness we wouldn’t be here, soliciting her advice. I myself have been known to engage in hot and heavy debate with El, but that is what it is, debate. I like that she challenges my thinking with her direct honesty, she pushes me to grow and stretch…that is what mentors are for. Meg
  • Thanks El, What a great description. That was VERY helpful.
  • And El, thanks for giving so freely of yourself to this list.
  • ::: suction cup arrow hits me right between the eyes :::: Ouch!! LOLOLOL
  • Thank you, El. And thank you for all the time, energy and heart you put into responding here. You are so full of wisdom and so generous with sharing it, I really appreciate it and really have so much to learn from you. Thank you.
  • Wow what a thoughtful and thorough response, El.
  • El (the wise one; love guru) reminded you that …
  • Awesome advice!!
  • BTW El –YOU ARE the love goddess! I can’t even begin to tell you after all of this time that STILL your advice is sage wisdom and new and fresh and touching to me! (Fran)
  • love reading your stories, El.
  • WOW you’re good. You’re really good. …I look forward to more from you.
  • Wonderful answer! I agree totally.

  • I absolutely love your flirty, fun, yet chock full of info conversation about “not being able to resist” him! I have to practice that a few times, but I will definitely be using it. I agree, don’t want to get too heavy or “we need to talk”-ish at this point, keep it light, but definitely get your message across! Bravo my dear, great work on interpreting this to my situation…it works perfectly! Thank you.
  • I got to say most of what I wanted to say (with Elenor’s great help!)…that I appreciated that he was considerate of my virtue by getting 2 beds in the hotel, and then reiterated what I need from him (or anyone) to become intimate (secure rlsp, commitment, monogamy). He really liked the part about when I said it would be hard to resist him Elenor! … El – you should have seem him perk up when I told him that I appreciated him being so gallant to protect my virtue…it’s like I can see his confidence being built up every time we go out and he is becoming a better man every time! He enjoys it and so do I.
  • I wanted to thank Sassy Girl for the question and El for the great responses. I’m throwing myself back into the dating world again and that was just plain great advice.
  • I know El has given you perfect advice
  • Thanks El – I needed to hear that – that’s why I wrote, love and kisses from your adoring daughter in training
  • It took me at least five years, maybe ten, to learn much of what you’ve written in this one post, Elenor!
  • Thank you for the story, I enjoyed reading it. and I love it when you look at us up over your glasses, lol! :)
  • Wow! Great advice! I will use it for sure!… A book is one thing, real people are another! Thanks!
  • Real good point Elenor! Thank you!!
  • Thank you very much for your email, you were spot on.
  • El made a good point in her response post.

  • Oh, thanks El, for the hearfelt words, that makes me feel better.
  • Thanks Elenor. It’s mostly thanks to your telling me over and over that it’s just not worth fighting with a person who isn’t worth my time.
  • Thanks so much El!!
  • Subj: Re: Question/open mouth insert foot, again – El, I need your input
  • El you have such a great way of putting things.
  • I just don’t know when to say what and how often is too much… I’m going to use the examples you posted below.
  • Your advice is awesome too, El.
  • Hi El, thanks for the below. You are right, … Thanks so much for helping me, as always.
  • Elenor, this is great. it has everything Pat in there regarding this situation. It's good for me to keep reading about this, I can apply some of it to my life too.
  • I too understand how you feel, and read Elenor’s kind and thoughtful words, she knows what she writes about!
  • oh, thank goodness for your emails, Elenor, I didn’t sleep much and woke up early, yes, I agree with you,
  • Elenor, I have never met anyone like you who shows so much compassion for ANYONE who comes around, even though they might be kicking and screaming to not listen, you are still willing to keep going on talking until they hear your words. I thank you so much for that and count on you for that, even though there may be those who are not ready to hear your message/advice. It took me a while to understand your message because I was so uncomfortable, but because I was willing to realize that I could be wrong, I saw what I wanted and needed. Like you always say, you can’t unring a bell. That was certainly the case with me!

  • I just appreciate the support! (You’ve been very helpful as I lick my wounds, you know?! )
  • It’s really my pleasure to let you know many times, how often you have helped me. I’ve never had anyone lead me by my hand like that before, and I feel honored to know you and to get your suggestions that are so right-on every time. You have helped me tremendously in opening my eyes to all of this truth. What is it about us girls only wanting to hear the sugar-coated stuff? Is it just that we are afraid to see the truth? How did this happen?
  • Elenor, I know it is your profession, but you are so great with the wording. What you had written for me is very similar to what I had written, except it’s very concise.
  • I am glad to know for myself that I can accept uncomfortable truths. That was my lesson when I first met you. Knowing that I can hear the truths and knowing that I can deal with it because it makes me a more knowledgeable and rounded person has made me a much more calmer person to be around. Greg told me the other day that he could tell that I’m much calmer than how I was before. He thanks you (without really knowing what you have done for me) :)
  • Thank you for this. You’ve helped me get over this problem and now I know how to handle these types of situations in the future, if it should so happen again. I was uncomfortable because I wasn’t sure how to handle it, but you have led the way for me once again. … Thank you Elenor!!!
  • It’s always nice to hear about what you have to say and to confirm my thoughts.
  • Thank you for sharing your story. Your stories give me so much insight into what I should do.
  • Elenor, you are GREAT with people, you will be totally fine!
  • Once again, you are right on the money with the advice. Have you ever thought about writing a book about work-related problems and being a pro person who gives advice?
  • This is exactly what I need to say to her. Thank you for suggesting these words!
  • There are no words to describe your willingness and ability to help me Elenor. Thank you so much…
  • As much as it hurt, I am extremely grateful for your honesty. I don’t have anyone in my life who can offer me much insight and I don’t necessarily share with others in my circle what I am facing. I figure I can be strong and work it out. In reading your assessment of my situation I see that I can’t do things all alone and I would like your help in making the changes in myself that need to be made so I can be happy and comfortable.

  • I trust your wisdom and you have always guided me and been the voice of reason. You calm me down and help me to know that the world is not falling apart. The impending doom and gloom that I feel will pass I know. But, how, in the midst of my storm, do you think I should proceed?
  • Thank you for normalizing my feelings for me and reminding me that my life is just as important, if not more, than what’s going on in the Gulf Region. First of all, thank you reading, listening to my concerns, and taking the time out of your busy schedule to respond to me. I appreciate you and I want you to know that I do not take you for granted. ​ I am glad the world is not falling apart but yes, it felt like mine was! Thank you for those words. I read your comments over and over. I printed a copy to take with me in the car. Please know that you have helped me tremendously this week and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. My situation is better. I am still exhausted and weary but my spirits are better and my attitude has had a positive adjustment!
  • Thanks for the speedy, and perfect, reply!
  • El, You are always so good at calmly getting to the heart of the matter, thank you;
  • our El is so wise…
  • Oh absolutely. You have his number on this one. It’s about him when he pursues, but he pursues so well that you think it’s about you. But it’s not. ::: thunk on head:::
  • El’s advice to you on that particular topic hit home for me too
  • Thanks El. I might not always say it but I appreciate your …direct (lol) advice
  • Thanks for the advice El, I really feel that I am doing the right thing.
  • Thanks El. You always know the right thing to say.
  • You perfectly said what I have found true in my own experiences.
  • LOL!! El that is hilarious!! I love your writing style!!

  • See? This is how I know that I was led to this site for a reason. This is exactly what I need. Nobody – even if they knew what was going on with me – would tell it to me straight like this. Thank you El. You made me cry, but it was a good cry that I really needed. I need to get out of fairytale land and face reality.
  • Woweee! This is some seriously good stuff. I am saving it for/if I go through another break up. This is amazing. Thanks so much for sharing Elenor.
  • I think El’s suggested note was right-on advice.
  • …you have the ability to add and answer much more in depth
  • your advice is “spot” on as always… it’s a good thing for me to read too
  • after all the angst I have gone through and put this yahoo group through, I was hating it here but now I am grateful that this group is here.
  • El darling! What would I do without you?
  • Actually El, this response has helped me tremedously.
  • Thank you El – as usual, your verbage is perfect.
  • Wow Elenor … you put the analogy of duty dating and your situation with the departing navy men so well! Thank you so much for sharing.
  • That was brilliant (thank you, E. Snow).
  • But I think that El has hit the nail on the head here.

  • Yes, El, that makes total sense. I want you to know that I appreciate the time and thoughtfulness that you put into your messages.
  • El, I definitely have to agree!
  • Elenor – all that I am is because of you …take great pride in that my teacher! And some day I would hope that S____ will be counted among those that you have taught that will teach. love Fran
  • More thoughts, you give me a lot to chew on
  • This email and a few others made me realize that I am still learning, “how men truly are.”
  • Your advice is gold (and more!)
  • Elenor, Wow, my head’s spinning :) Some very deep concepts there.
  • You’re absolutely right El.
  • Subj: French guy update: to fling or not to fling or why El is ALWAYS RIGHT.
  • El, you crack me up with your posts and have a big heart helping us work towards a good relationship.
  • El – I love this metaphor – I’m going to remember it the next time “I don’t feel” like going out … the online dating world IS NOT my only option!

  • Thanks El, for the better wording! I’m thinking it worked like a charm.
  • Great example and explanation … thanks El, thanks for taking the time to explain this. I fully understand the (Fisher King) wound now :D
  • El I am always here and get a lot from being on this list. It has helped me in so many ways over the years. Pat Allen is a very wise and so are you.
  • Thank you. You have put into words what I have been feeling but could not figure out how to say it.
  • Thank you so very much!!!! If I could hug you, I would.
  • I like the image of you throwing information at us, which is what you do, and we love you for it (most of the time)
  • That is a good point El, and I never thought of it, but it does make sense.
  • We’re so lucky for it too. if you didn’t read/listen/research all this stuff for us, we wouldn’t be able to get advice from you like this.
  • I want to express my heartfelt, thank you to you. I can’t find the right words to express what your posts, especially this weekend, have meant to me. You have literally changed my life for the better. God’s not done with me yet and I know you aren’t either. I hope you realize your words travel much further and affect many more lives than just us here. Like ripples in a pond. Thank you!!
  • Hi El, perfect!! I wish I had you to talk to when I used to date!!
  • Thank god for this board, El, Fran and everybody else here for helping to give us this knowledge.
  • You really have given me more food for thought!

  • Elenor is always such an eloquent writer, alwasy dotting her i’s and crossing her T’s, I feel like I am reading The New Yorker magazine or something like that (Yankee Magazine). Everytime I read her emails, no matter how short. Not only in content, but since she was an editor too, I should be writing in correct punctuation and grammar/spelling too.
  • I find my own writing has slipped a great deal since I’ve been active in these forums, and when I see writing like El’s, it gives me something to model (and even aspire to) :)
  • Pat’s book is great but I didn’t get much from it, it’s El’s breakdowns of the theories and the files in the file section that make everything make sense.
  • Thanks for the whacking El. You saved us! I just didn’t get it till now. Thank you so much El, and Diana, and Fran, and DL. What would I do without you?
  • I disagree my darling El–you are being gentle for it is only a gentlewoman who understands this. (After I had written: “You may find me easier to ‘take’ if you understand where I am coming from. (I’m nice, but not gentle…)”
  • Whew! That’s a lot of info. You’re so generous with your time. I’m going to put it in a Word doc so I don’t lose it!
  • El – that was wonderful. I really appreciate your thoughtful reply.
  • of course, there are bad seeds out there, but what El does for us is to teach us to try to discern the bad seeds from the good ones and not look at the entire seed packet as stink weeds. (Fran)
  • I could hug you. Is that okay? ((((((Elenor))))))
  • Gosh I love when you get on a roll El! Every thing you say rings true to me.
  • Very nice letter El. You were worth waiting for.
  • I love your coffee talks, El, I used to thrive on them when I was in the doldrums with …

Podcasts

Podcast No. 1

  • I LOVE the podcast, so wonderful to hear your voice and I think they’d make a great addition to the more important issues discussed on the board.
  • Wow, this is great elenor, I can listen on the train to work. More please! You’d be great doing a audiobook too!
  • But speaking of speaking my dear El, I finally had the opportunity to listen to your podcast and I believe that with a bit of training, you, my darling, have the potential for a career using your voice – books on tapes, voice-overs etc. It’s the east coast “fast talk” that you have that would need to be slowed down – and believe me I have it sooooo badly that I have actually had my accountant ask me if it were possible for me to speak slower as he was having a hard time keeping up! (LOL) but your voice is melodic and easy to listen to…

Podcast No. 2

  • El, great job I must say. You sounded like you do that all the time!
  • This was great! Good job El! It definitely is different to hear your message spoken.
  • I think your voice is lovely and you might have a side career in the voiceover/books on tape arena

About my sites

  • (Email about my Notes from a class with Peter Sandman) Thank you Elenor for the abstract you have done on Prof. SANDMAN class. As local elected in southern France, this overview will be very useful for I’m in charge … It’s difficult (we have lots of activists in the area) to obtain an agreement. Now, thanks to you, I know how to act. Jean-Honoré Civetta, Cagnes Sur Mer
  • I am completing an examination for a professional designation as a Certified Health and Safety Consultant (CHSC) through the CSSE (Canadian Society of Safety Engineering). The CSSE uses Dr Sandman’s work extensively in their Applied Risk Communication (ARC) course. I found your notes (see attached link) during preparatory research and although I have many Sandman 12 interpretations to work from I am finding your notes succinct and very useful … Thanks!
    (Followed by, after I told him my notes were from the early ’90s) Floating around in cyberspace for more than 10 years and still relevant… Thanks again for your notes of the past!
  • (Email about my Tai Chi Chuan article) Thank you so much for you insightful article in Tai Chi magazine. … Your article made me understand what happened in a physics way. Your insights and revelations are not in vain.
  • (Blog comment about my Tai Chi Chuan article) I recently remembered a great short little article I found years ago by a woman named Elenor Snow who’s trained in both Chen and Yang. If I wanted to tell someone why they should look into taiji (especially Chen style), I couldn’t find better words than this. Maybe I will someday, but until then, I bow with respect to these wise words on The Value of Relaxation.
  • (About my “How to Stack Cats” page) Elenor, first let me say I am a dog person! However, after viewing your How to Stack Cats page, you have converted me. As a photographer there are some shots that are not only enchanting but artistically superior.

Web Design Work

  • (My redesign of the WBGarvey website) Oh El, it looks fabulous. Thanks! The whiff hasn’t had a chance to weigh in yet but I give it a hearty thumbs up. Did you change the mission statement from manuscript to notebook on your own? Because I was gonna suggest exactly that. You’re the bomb!
  • (About a pre-cruise website I made for a friend’s cruise) Your own webpages are gorgeous – would you allow me to cut and paste some of your text into mine? The more I look at the website you made for me the more astonished I am!

Web Design Critiques

  • Brilliant – and difficult! LOL! Will give it a go! Thanks so much, El. You are amazing!
  • Elenor, Thanks, for the wonderful feedback! This was my first stab at web design and I can see where your hints make lots of sense. There are lots of things that I would like to do, but don’t know how to do … so, the process of self-education continues… (oh, for more time in the day!) I do agree there are several odd wordings and such that will be easy enough to fix … thanks for the keen eye! Do you do your own web design?
  • (Site reviews for “Silvercat”): Wow! Thanks for taking so much time to give me such useful feedback. I appreciate it a lot!
  • Dear Elenor, Thank you so much for your thoughtful review of my site. I really appreciate it and will get to work with my web-friend making improvements!
  • (Site review for Living your Road Trip Dream) You did a beautiful job of pawing through the site! I met with my webmaster last Saturday and many of the issues that you mentioned, we thought of also. It is great to get your confirmation and some additional ideas from a trained eye. The visited links is one that escaped both of us. Your dedication to helping your list mates is outstanding!
  • Elenor – I’m amazed at the detail you put into your “looks” at the websites. I’ve read them and hope I’ve learned a lot. You can check out my site anytime you want! Rita Toews www.thebullybook.com
    Followed (after my critique) by: Oh, Boy! This is so good. Such great observations. Thank you! I’m going to use most of them. Super!
  • Personally, I love your in-depth web critiques. Shel Horowitz – copywriter, marketing consultant, author, speaker
  • WOW, it is fantastic to see Elenor Snow, technical writer, in action, and just for ME! do not dare touch the website tonight while I’m so tired. But now I am all excited about trying it tomorrow a.m.! Thank you SO MUCH. You are so awesome. And so much fun, too.
  • Thanks everyone for your input on my website critique………especially to Elenor………I will forward our comments to my graphic designers………

Posting on Assorted Other Forums and Lists

  • A final note: I have long admired not only your patient accumulation of fact, but the patient style you use in leading newbies here down the path. You’re one of the few people here who does it well, and watching you in action is always instructive and enjoyable. Wintermute
  • We should be each other’s greatest fans and greatest source of nurture, protection and support. That your work is trying to bring this about is most admirable.
  • An excellent essay
  • Did I ever tell you that you are brilliant?
  • Fine post ma’am. It takes heart to say that in today’s PC atmosphere (even on this site).
  • Excellent observations! Excellent post.
  • Thanks for your post! It does make perfect sense.
  • Thank you all sooooooo much especially [Elenor], I feel so much better!
  • Excellent advice and terrific posts
  • Very good advice. I hope she listens to you.
  • Bravo! This is easily one of the best posts I’ve read on the subject. Thank you for posting it here.
  • I think Pat’s and [Elenor]’s advice is generally very sensible. I have no doubt that dozens of people read [El]’s posts and do find them useful.

  • This is a very detailed, thoughtful and helpful contribution to this most difficult subject.
  • Brilliant post, It could very well happen.
  • Thanks for saying that so I don’t have to
  • Excellent as always
  • I always appreciate your take on things
  • I was going to reply, but [Elenor] said exactly what I was going to.
  • I am going through the entire thread and reading only [Elenor]’s messages, no one else’s. …because I want to be good at this, and she has the gift of teaching the subject.
  • Your posts never fail to amaze me. You’re brilliant.
  • Thank you for answering [Elenor]! I just finish reading the link to your thread, WOW, that’s a lot of information, very deep! Interesting vision, if you do apply all these rules to your life, well then you sound like the perfect woman to me. (From a man)
  • Bravo [Elenor], Though I find it funny that women seemingly think they know how we think, and what we want, I think you’re pretty close. (From a different man)
  • [Elenor], Thanks for your response. Your words have crystalized some of the thoughts I had.
  • First off let me say that your advice has been phenomenal.

  • I just read your big essay: Great. It really is. It should be read by all men.
  • Elenor, I love your quote: “Never attribute to malice what can be explained away by incompetence!” Your points are very well taken.
  • (About my answer on being an anti-feminist on someone’s blog) Elenor – very impressive, I mean that with 100% sincerity. It is quite a rarity to come across someone, woman or man, who can articulate what you just did.
  • (A discussion on the Yahoo group: CCW–WA: Conceal Carry Weapons – Washington state) Elenor, I think you’ve articulated some great points here.
  • (Advice given on thyroid list)Thank you VERY MUCH, Elenor. I’ll do just that. Guess it can't hurt.
  • (Comment on a list entry) Just brilliant, Elenor! Thanks! So well put.

My cruise website(s)

  • (Diamond Head pre-cruise website) WOW! What a great site and a wealth of information! Fantastic! Thank you!
  • (Alaskateer pre-cruise website) Your website is fabulous! Thanks so much for sharing.
  • (Alaskateer pre-cruise website) Elenor, your website is terrific and very helpful!! Thanks!
  • (Alaskateer pre-cruise website) I love all your beautiful pix and interesting info on your website, Elenor!
  • (Icy Jewels Cruise Critic thread) MsArchangel….very well said….I agree with you!

  • (Icy Jewels pre-cruise website) Wow Elenor – We had multiple power outages today and I think they knocked out the bulb in our TV so I have enjoyed this evening looking at ALL your info and web sites. You are amazing and thanks so much for all you are doing to make this a voyage to remember.
  • (Icy Jewels pre-cruise website) I am amazed at all the information on your website. (Bob)
  • (Icy Jewels pre-cruise website) Both of your websites are wonderful. All of the information and pictures you have, Elenor, is so helpful.
  • (Icy Jewels pre-cruise website)
  • (Icy Jewels pre-cruise website) Elenor – I looked at your site and read for over an hour the other night. Thanks so much for all the info.

  • (Icy Jewels pre-cruise website) BTW, I have been trying to read all of your website. Very impressive.
  • (Icy Jewels Cruise Critic post about server security) Elenor’s explanation is the clearest I’ve ever seen on the underlying operation.
  • (Icy Jewels Cruise Critic thread) Elenor, your site rocks.
  • (Icy Jewels about a Cruise Critic dust-up) Nicely put Elenor … I think this is a good explanation of what has transpired here today.
  • (Icy Jewels about a Cruise Critic dust-up) Amen, Elenor, for so clearly expressing my sentiments. Thanks for the diplomatic summary, Elenor.

  • (Icy Jewels about a Cruise Critic dust-up; off-list message) I just wanted to thank you for your excellent posts last night and especially this morning.
    You were very diplomatic and thoughtful in your statements and I really expected that after the post last night this would have been over. I was shocked at his post this morning but your reply was spot on.
    I really wish he would just stop all this as he is making a lot of people mad and not like him … .my husband actually said he thought something like this was going to happen a while ago.
    Sorry for taking this roll call issue to your personal email but I wanted to tell you that I loved your response this morning and I hope it ends this … I just didn’t want to gush over you on the roll call!
  • (“L.O.S.T.” (Liberty of the Seas TransAtlantic) Cruise Critic thread) WOW, thanks so much Elenor. Your temp charts will really be a big help when packing.
  • (“L.O.S.T.” (Liberty of the Seas TransAtlantic) Cruise Critic thread) I’d like to echo Elenor’comments (all of them).